Teaching in Vn, what are the classes like?

Hi Adam,
The center will give you the material before classes so that you can prepare it. Generally, there will be 20 students or less in a classrom - cos it wont be effective with a big size class. As i told you, trying to clariy the words, making things easy, having a great sense of humor, knowing little vietnamese will help you do your job well. cos not all vietnamese can understand you all the time so knowing little vietnam will help you a lot when there are some new words which are difficult to explain in english. At last, just try to make things from complex to simple.

WHY do people think VietNam has an open door policy for English teachers?

Before you get your hopes up start thinking Work Permit (up to 9 months), low pay, etc. Australia has immigration rules, so does VietNam.

V immigration has just started in with new rules because of all the abuse and things are definitely harder than before.

VN students are fussy, too, they prefer teachers with Canadian, English or U.S. accents. Last year a whole class walked out on an Australian physics teacher because they could not understand him.

Even volunteer teachers (as in free) have to have proper qualifications. No good taking a course at that Australian 'school' whose courses last a whole weekend and three nights before they give out certificates.

Before you buy your ticket make sure you have all the necessary documentation. You'll also need a document from the Australian police saying you have no criminal record.

WHY do people think VietNam has an open door policy for English teachers?

Because it does allow teachers to enter as tourists, then make other arrangements upon landing a job.  WHY do you have a problem with them coming here to teach?

Before you get your hopes up start thinking Work Permit (up to 9 months), low pay, etc. Australia has immigration rules, so does VietNam.

It took me 4 weeks to get my work permit. 

$25 an hour is low pay?  You're severely misinformed, or intentionally misinforming.


V immigration has just started in with new rules because of all the abuse and things are definitely harder than before.

Maybe, but he's welcome to come look around.  You shouldn't have one bit of trouble at immigration.  I've had a much harder time entering Canada, or the US...much, much harder.

VN students are fussy, too, they prefer teachers with Canadian, English or U.S. accents. Last year a whole class walked out on an Australian physics teacher because they could not understand him.

Where's your source for that story about the teacher?

Vietnamese students rock!  You just have to make your classes interesting, which can be a challenge.  If you intend to teach here you need to get a teaching certificate.  The CELTA is the one you should pursue, in my opinion.  It's the most respected and you would have an idea of what to expect.  The course is one month and is a pain.

I have several Aussie friends who've enjoyed success teaching here.  One of them is extremely popular.

Even volunteer teachers (as in free) have to have proper qualifications. No good taking a course at that Australian 'school' whose courses last a whole weekend and three nights before they give out certificates.

Thanks for defining volunteer.  I certainly appreciated it.

As I said before, get a CELTA and you'll have a job.  The school he's referring to is a bit suspect, but they do offer real certs and you could get a job with one from them.

Before you buy your ticket make sure you have all the necessary documentation. You'll also need a document from the Australian police saying you have no criminal record.

The only good advice he offered.  After you've been here 6 months you can get one done locally. If you got a job at a school that wants work permits for their teachers when you first arrive, you would need the background check.  Not all schools require them, however.  Nevertheless, it's probably best to get it done there, before you depart.

Ms. Truc has good advice, especially about having a sense of humor.  The students are the real bosses!  All schools are different, however. The school may, or may not, be well equipped.  They may, or may not, have all the materials you need.  I've provided my own lessons, from my own books, on many occasions.

I've also taught up to 40 students at once.  It's a lot harder than 20, but the trick is to break them down into groups, if possible.  20 or less is preferable, for obvious reasons. 

My advice is to finish your degree before you go off on a voyage of self discovery!  A BA, along with a CELTA, are good things to have here.  Your job prospects would improve exponentially.

WideAwake wrote:

WHY do people think VietNam has an open door policy for English teachers?

The new, stiffer immigration rules have come about because of abuse. Many visitors don't regard teaching as much more than a means of earning money. I have no problem with people working in accordance with the rules and Yes, I do have a problem with people who come here and abuse the hospitality. Like the Nigerian who set up a credit card scamming operation or the Indian guy who was running a string of hookers in Pham Ngu Lau.

Before you get your hopes up start thinking [b]Work Permit (up to 9 months), low pay, etc. Australia has immigration rules, so does VietNam.[/b]

It took me 4 weeks to get my work permit. Great, many others are waiting much longer. The OP shouldn't assume that it's a mere formality like some of the schemes designed to give students a Gap Year job. He should have sufficient finances to tide him over.

$25 an hour is low pay?  You're severely misinformed, or intentionally misinforming.

You are being facetious. USD$25 is more the exception than the rule. A prospective teacher with a BA in Education and an English credit can land a job in a uni here which is a damn sight more than many of these "colleges".

VN immigration has just started in with new rules because of all the abuse and things are definitely harder than before.

Maybe, but he's welcome to come look around.  You shouldn't have one bit of trouble at immigration.  I've had a much harder time entering Canada, or the US...much, much harder.

The new immigration rules are intended to stop unlawful employment. Anecdotal stories about things that happened in 2011 or earlier are likely to be history. No one knows what the effects will be. I do know that a routine 3-month biz visa extension that normally took  couple of days is still pending after two weeks, which is new.

VN students are fussy, too, they prefer teachers with Canadian, English or U.S. accents. Last year a whole class walked out on an Australian physics teacher because they could not understand him.

I've had a much harder time entering Canada, or the US...much, much harder.

I can understand why. A lot of Americans regard Canada as the 51st state and when they come against the immigration/work rules they get surprised. US rules are stiffer than Canadian or VN rules. Usually immigration rules are quid pro quo.

Where's your source for that story about the teacher?

There are several evening "colleges" in the area of the first intersection above the Turtle Pond in Q1. Students, whose fees have ramped up in the past couple of years are looking for value for money. Their stated preferences are North American followed by England. There have also been stories in the VN youth newspapers.

Vietnamese students rock!  You just have to make your classes interesting, which can be a challenge.  If you intend to teach here you need to get a teaching certificate.  The CELTA is the one you should pursue, in my opinion.  It's the most respected and you would have an idea of what to expect.  The course is one month and is a pain.

I have several Aussie friends who've enjoyed success teaching here.  One of them is extremely popular.

Even volunteer teachers (as in free) have to have proper qualifications. No good taking a course at that Australian 'school' whose courses last a whole weekend and three nights before they give out certificates.

Thanks for defining volunteer.  I certainly appreciated it.

I put that in so the OP understood than VN authorities are looking for qualified teachers rather than people who speak English to teach.

As I said before, get a CELTA and you'll have a job.  The school he's referring to is a bit suspect, but they do offer real certs and you could get a job with one from them.

[i]Before you buy your ticket make sure you have all the necessary documentation. You'll also need a document from the Australian police saying you have no criminal record.

The only good advice he offered.  After you've been here 6 months you can get one done locally. If you got a job at a school that wants work permits for their teachers when you first arrive, you would need the background check.  Not all schools require them, however.  Nevertheless, it's probably best to get it done there, before you depart.

Ms. Truc has good advice, especially about having a sense of humor.  The students are the real bosses!  All schools are different, however. The school may, or may not, be well equipped.  They may, or may not, have all the materials you need.  I've provided my own lessons, from my own books, on many occasions.

I've also taught up to 40 students at once.  It's a lot harder than 20, but the trick is to break them down into groups, if possible.  20 or less is preferable, for obvious reasons. 

My advice is to finish your degree before you go off on a voyage of self discovery!  A BA, along with a CELTA, are good things to have here.  Your job prospects would improve exponentially.

[/i]

Nigerians...hookers on PNL? WTF?  Were any of them teachers?

Facetious? I had to look that up!  I may like to joke, but I certainly know the industry better than you.  I've been at it a while and know plenty of people who have been at it a spot longer than I have. The only thing you know is what you can glean off the internet, or through the local press.  I guess I've been the exception to the rule many times throughout my career.  I've never made less than $14 per hour, and I've topped out at $26.50.  I'd say I've averaged $22.     

The O/P came into the forum asking questions that a teacher would ask.  I don't see the word money mentioned once, so why did you bring it up?


Klavsy, feel free to message me if you want to.

Wideawake, Can I ask for your opinion on something please?

I hear CELTA being mentioned a lot for the preferred qualification.

I am doing a combination of both TESOL and TEFL receiving both certificates at the end of the course - See below link

http://www.avse.edu.vn/index.php?option … 53&lang=en

Is this in your eyes sufficient enough? From the UK I have 2 years Teaching/Training experience in the travel industry but I don't have a degree relating to it.

Cheers mate,

Michael

I am doing a combination of both TESOL and TEFL receiving both certificates at the end of the course,

The Vietnamese love seeing certificates (and many checkup on them - a friend who works in a uni HR department says that many use 'creative' photocopying to make false certificates). By having more than a basic qualification shows that you are more dedicated to teaching than just making money.

Is this in your eyes sufficient enough? From the UK I have 2 years Teaching/Training experience in the travel industry but I don't have a degree relating to it.

Universities require degrees for their hires, but the fact you have taught, even in an unrelated industry, shows you have acquired experience. Bring your references, they will help.

Hello WideAwake,

"WHY do people think VietNam has an open door policy for English teachers?

Because it does allow teachers to enter as tourists, then make other arrangements upon landing a job.  WHY do you have a problem with them coming here to teach?"

I think it is important, to advise new comers ( English teacher, Bar tenders, Carpenters ..) to Vietnam again and again on it. As in the western world, there is quite a huge freedom for relocating, and people tend to forget, that things in Vietnam not the same.

They come here, have no CV, no police clearance record, no or not enough of the paper works here required, not the required work experience and neither - they have an idea, that is could be in fact 9 month- where they can't work legally.

New comers can always face always different hurdles to get settled.

13ully think your last post should of been directed towards Jaitch

Work permit for foreign laborers working in Vietnam

Purpose    To manage the recruitment of foreign laborers by enterprises and organizations in Vietnam
What is it    License
Who should apply    00

All enterprises and organizations recruiting foreign laborers to work in Vietnam, except:

Foreign laborers entering Vietnam to work for a period of less than  03 (three) months; and those entering Vietnam to resolve and emergency situation such as a breakdown or a technically or technologically complex situation which suddenly arises and which affects, or has the risk of affecting production or business and which Vietnamese experts and foreign experts in Vietnam are not able to resolve
Foreigners who are members of the Board of Management or member's council (in the case of a limited liability company) established under Vietnamese laws with legal status
Foreigners who are head of representative offices or branches in Vietnam
Foreign lawyers to whom Ministry of Justice has issued a certificate to practice in accordance with laws
Where to apply   
Department of Labor, War Invalid and Social Affair in the locality where enterprises locate their headquarters

Validity of the License and application fee   
Fees:

Fees on granting a working license: 400.000 VND/permit
Fees on re-granting a working license: 300.000 VND/permit
Fees on extension of a working license: 200.000 VND/permit
Duration:

Same duration as the duration of the labor contract or as set out in the decision of the foreign party on appointment, but shall not exceed 36 months.
Application conditions and documents   
Eligibility of Applicants

Being 18 years of age or older
Being physically fit to the work requirements
Must have highly technical skills or highly professional qualifications (including: engineers and persons of a standards similar to or higher than engineers; traditional trade artisans) and be very experienced and be senior professionally in the direction of production or business operation or in management work which Vietnamese employees are not yet able to perform.
Have no previous conviction or criminal record and must not currently be subject to criminal prosecution or any criminal sentence in accordance with Vietnamese and foreign laws
Foreign employees engaged in private medical or pharmaceutical practices or directly carrying out disease examination and treatment in Vietnam must satisfy all conditions stipulated by the Vietnamese laws in relation to private medical or pharmaceutical practice.
Application dossiers, which should be prepared in 2 copies, shall consist of the following:

Application for issuance of work permit of the labor users;
Application for working in Vietnam;
Form of criminal record issued by the competent authority from the foreign countries they lived. In case where the foreigners have resided in Vietnam for over six months, they should also submit the Form of criminal record issued by the Department of Justice in the locality where they are living.
CV of the foreign laborer's resume, made according to a form set by the Ministry of Labor, War Invalids and Social Affairs, including an attached photograph of the foreigner.
Medical certificate issued in the foreign countries; if the laborer is residing in Vietnam, health certificate must be granted under the regulations of the Health Ministry
Legal copies of certificates on professional skills such as: bachelor, master, doctor and certificates on qualifications granted under the existing law of the foreign countries. If foreigners are craftsmen of traditional crafts or are persons having experience, but no formal certificates, shall provide written documents provided by competent authorities of their country attesting to their qualifications and experience.
3 (three) color photos (size 3cm x 4 cm) with bare head, taken frontally, showing clearly the face and 2 ears and no glasses
The process   
Labor users take responsibility of making preparation for a dossier under provisions of laws and submit to Department of Labor, War Invalid and Social Affair.
Within 15 working days as from the date of receipt of a valid dossier, the competent authority shall grant the work permit.
How long it will take to process the application?    15 working days
Inspecting authorities   
Department of Labor, War Invalid and Social Affair in centrally run cities and provinces.

Non-compliance penalty   
A fine between 5.000.000 VND to 10.000.000 VND is applied to employers using foreign laborers who have no work permit.
Sanction of expelling foreign laborers is applied when foreigners working in Vietnam for over 3 months have no work permit or use the invalid work permits as stipulated in Clause 1, Article 133 of supplemented and amended Labor Code
Legal texts regulating this license   
Code of Labor
Circular No. 09/TT- BLDTBXH dated March 18, 1997 of the Ministry of Labor, War Invalid and Social Affair guiding the implementation of issuance of Working Licenses (for foreign laborers working in Vietnam)
Decree No.105/2003/ND-CP of September 17, 2003 detailing and guiding the implementation of a number of articles of the Labor Code regarding the recruitment and management of foreign laborers working in Vietnam
DECREE No.93/2005/ND-CP on amendment of and addition to a number of articles of Decree No.105/2003/ND-CP of the government dated 17 September 2003 providing detailed regulations and guidelines on implementation of a number of articles of the labour code with respect to employment and administration of foreign employees working in Vietnam
Circular 04/2004/TT-BLDTBXH dated 10/3/2004 guiding the implementation of some articles of Decree 105/2003/ND-CP dated 17/9/2003 detailing and guiding the implementation of a number of articles of the Labor Code regarding the recruitment and management of foreign laborers working in Vietnam
Circular 24/2005/TT-BLDTBXH dated 26/9/2005 of the Ministry of Labor, War Invalid and Social Affair amending and supplementing a number of points of Circular 04/2004/TT-BLDTBXH dated 10/3/2004
Decree No, 113/2004/ND-CP dated April 16, 2004 of the Government sanctioning administrative violation on labor
Decision No.54/2005/QD- BTC dated August 04, 2005 of the Minister of Finance stipulating fees on issuance of working license for foreign laborers working in Vietnam
Other useful information   
Enterprises, agencies and organizations (hereinafter called employers) having the right to recruit foreign labors consist of:
Enterprises operating under the State Enterprise Law, the Enterprise Law or the Law on Foreign Investment in Vietnam;
Foreign contractors (principal contractors, sub- contractors) performing contracts in Vietnam;
Representative offices and branches of economic, trade, financial, banking, insurance, scientific- technical, cultural, sport, education, training, and medical organizations;
Social professional organizations;
Non-business units of the State;
Medical, cultural, educational, training and sports establishments (including those set up under the Enterprise Law, the State Enterprise Law or the Law on Foreign Investment in Vietnam)
Vietnam- based offices of foreign or international projects;
Vietnam- based management offices of foreign parties to business cooperation contracts;
Vietnam - based organizations practicing law under the provision of Vietnamese law;
Cooperative set up and operating under the Cooperative Law
Employers listed in item 1 above (state owned enterprises, enterprises under Enterprise Law and foreign invested projects operating under the Foreign Investment Law are allowed to recruit foreign laborers not exceeding 3 (three) percent of the number of their current employees. A minimum of 1 person may be recruited.
The regulation on the ratio of foreign employees that may be employed by employers listed in items 2-10 above shall not apply; however, they must obtain approval from the Chairman of the People's Committee of the province or city under central authority to recruit a larger number of foreign laborers.
Where enterprises or organizations (items 1-10 inclusive) have obtained an approval of a project or an operating license by a Vietnamese authorized State body in which the number of foreign employees is specified, the approval from the Chairman of the People's Committee shall not be required.

Detailed license information sheets are provided only for guidance. You must study the legal texts, also provided on this Portal for guidance, and you must consult the relevant authorities to decide whether you actually need to apply for any of the listed licenses and permits and to check whether there are new legal requirements, licenses and permits governing your business activities. We cannot be responsible for consequences of errors and omissions.


Source:
http://www.business.gov.vn/licensedetai … gType=1033

Bonesy wrote:

Wideawake, Can I ask for your opinion on something please?

I hear CELTA being mentioned a lot for the preferred qualification.

I am doing a combination of both TESOL and TEFL receiving both certificates at the end of the course - See below link

http://www.avse.edu.vn/index.php?option … 53&lang=en

Is this in your eyes sufficient enough? From the UK I have 2 years Teaching/Training experience in the travel industry but I don't have a degree relating to it.

Cheers mate,

Michael

The course has a practicum, so you should be fine. 

The CELTA is highly regarded because it had the Cambridge brand behind it.  You can get a job teaching ESL just about anywhere in the world with it.  Is it a superior course?  No, absolutely not.  In fact if that school isn't lying and you do spend a substantial amount of time teaching, I'd say it's the better certificate to have here.

Bonesy wrote:

13ully think your last post should of been directed towards Jaitch

Sorry, I could not agree more more on what he/she writes. I have seen many cases not only English teachers (but the majority was) where that was/is true.

I also did hear/read the opposite, but never seen anything supporting the said.

As a matter fact, 8/10 new comers seem to disappear within less than 3 month.

l3ully wrote:

Hello WideAwake,

"WHY do people think VietNam has an open door policy for English teachers?

Because it does allow teachers to enter as tourists, then make other arrangements upon landing a job.  WHY do you have a problem with them coming here to teach?"

I think it is important, to advise new comers ( English teacher, Bar tenders, Carpenters ..) to Vietnam again and again on it. As in the western world, there is quite a huge freedom for relocating, and people tend to forget, that things in Vietnam not the same.

They come here, have no CV, no police clearance record, no or not enough of the paper works here required, not the required work experience and neither - they have an idea, that is could be in fact 9 month- where they can't work legally.

New comers can always face always different hurdles to get settled.

I have more freedom in Vietnam than I have in America, so you're right, it is different.  I just give up my right to free speech and the right to carry a gun.  I just relocated to Hanoi back in Septemeber, then 3 weeks ago I came back to Saigon.

They can work legally, if the school is actually processing the paperwork.  If the school doesn't apply for one that's their fault.

I came here with $2K and a "can do" attitude.  The first school I walked into hired me that day.  1 month later I replaced 2 part time teachers at a local secondary school.  When I walked in there I really knew I had found my career...at 42 years old!

I got the job by not giving up and believing I could do it.  I chose to be the "Little Engine that Could" and not "Chicken Little"!  I've also made it up that hill AND had the sky fall on me more than once, however. 

I also had a mentor, who's a cranky old Brit that hates America! He told me to pester them; to call and drop by the school at least once a week.  They kept saying "We call you.", but I ignored them and continued for 3 weeks, until they relented and hired me.

I didn't have a CV until a few weeks ago!  You're right about the other papers, though.

Darwin's theory is in effect here.  The strongest, with the proper attributes survive, and the weakest die...or in this case go home!  If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

Bonesy, you'll be a fine teacher. You're lucky to be getting in so young.  Make that a blessing and not a curse.  I would have killed doing something we all like to do, at your age!

Keep your head on straight and prepare for the course.  Take it seriously. 

Do they supply the books, or do you have to buy them separately?

Let's get something else straight.  Experience can be used in lieu of a BA/BS.  The English teacher, bartender, carpenter, lorry/truck driver(my last career) has to have 5 years experience and a teaching certificate, like the ones we've been discussing here. 

You should have a letter from the employer before you leave home, but you can have one sent if you're already here.  I have a lawyer that can iron out all the details for a fee, of course.

WideAwake wrote:

Nigerians...hookers on PNL? WTF?  Were any of them teachers?

It all has added to the drive to toughen up the immigration/work rules. Any rule changes affect all of us. Things are getting so bad VN immigration now has overnight patrols checking out parks and squats scooping up Foreigners.

They might not be teachers but they are Foreigners and that class includes you and me.

Facetious? I had to look that up!  I may like to joke, but I certainly know the industry better than you.  I've been at it a while and know plenty of people who have been at it a spot longer than I have.

I've been teaching in VN for over 14 years, not only English but also technical trades. I know people who work in the education field so I am well aware of what is going on. On occasion, when I see a likely candidate, I pass on the links for hem to follow up. Since you don't know me, nor the nature of my businesses you can't opine on my knowledge of any subject.

The only thing you know is what you can glean off the internet, or through the local press.

Another incorrect assumption on your part.

The O/P came into the forum asking questions that a teacher would ask.  I don't see the word money mentioned once, so why did you bring it up?

Actually you introduced the subject money ranges, not I.

Obviously, unless the OP has independent means, he obviously needs to earn something to live on. To quote yourself: "You're severely misinformed, or intentionally misinforming" is far more apropos to suggesting USD$25 is the norm.

I'm going to ignore you now.  I don't converse with people who stereotype and discriminate.

I'm sure as he!! glad I decided to come take a look for myself, rather than go by what was written on these boards.  I just glanced over a few "guide" articles.  Good enough to guide you straight back home. 

Klavsy and Bonesy, you're welcome to message me with any questions.

Ok, well I didnt intend to start a kind of forum war, however most of what was said was irrelavent or I was well aware of. I am not some backpacker attempting to travel and see how it goes teaching im well aware there are visa requirements, police checks, TESOL/CELTA, all of which i have already obtained. Most of what was said was pretty much concerned what i need before arrive......IM AWARE OF WHAT I NEED. The fact one aussie teacher was a poor teacher and probably talked like a redneck surely doesnt constitute the entire Australian accent as unclear/ 2nd rate. I get the impression from posts relating to the O/P that I'm just another westerner looking to come make some money etc etc, i wanted to teach in vietnam to further my own knowledge of the world, and help others learn aspects of the language that would help them meet their goals. The money aspect of it is hardly a factor, i simply need to sustain myself and have a place to sleep at night.

I had heard the stereotypes that alot of expats living in VN had become quiete pretentious and cynical though i didnt believe it. Like comments stating 'Remeber VN is very different'.......... REALLY!!! I dont want to move for the similarities.
Every VN person i have spoken to over this site, is helpful, supportive yet still generally realistic about what to expect. they accept the pros and cons of their country and accept it and seem to generally try to make the best of the situation.
Most (not all) expats have been pessimistic and generally a tad smug.
Thanks to some for their useful comments, thanks to others for being such good trolls.

klavsy wrote:

Every VN person i have spoken to over this site, is helpful, supportive yet still generally realistic about what to expect. they accept the pros and cons of their country and accept it and seem to generally try to make the best of the situation.
Most (not all) expats have been pessimistic and generally a tad smug.
Thanks to some for their useful comments, thanks to others for being such good trolls.

+1 It's amazing how many expats here look at teachers as some kind of second class citizen here, I'm always astounded.
I don't teach English, heck I can barely speak it, but I have a lot of friends that do, and all of them tell me how rewarding they find it