Organic food/vegatables

Hello Anatta!

I hope that other members will advise you soon.

Harmonie.

harmonie
Thanks for the follow-up.
This is what I have found in the mean time:

- list of vegan/vegetarian restaurants in HCMC. At the bottom of the link, there is a list of vegetarian food suppliers, including Annam gourmet market,..
happycow.net/asia/vietnam/ho_chi_minh_city

- A website/store selling organic food. organikvn.com. The business seems legit with some foreigners working in customer services. They have a store in Anphu, but does delivery for the whole HCM City. They grow their own vegetables in Da Lat. I'll try their services some time.

Hi all, where do locals shop for grocery?

At the local wet markets. Ask any Vietnamese and they will point out one close to where you live.

hi, u seem so worried! u can find safe vegetables in Co-opmart supermarket system. I can show u more if you point out more clearly
your location.

Anna Le

You may be right. I may be a bit too worried, but I have never worried about what I eat until I arrived here. Elsewhere, I can always assume that the food I buy is at least safe. The difference you pay between, a brand name, say, Dole fruits and generic brand or no brand is the taste, and the presentation. I used to consider buying organic food as waste of money.

Not here. Here, you can never assume anything. I have read so many articles about unethical/dangerous food/fruit growers/vendors here that it scares the hell out me.

If you think I am exaggerating, just talk to anyone who grows fruits for sale. Normally, there are two areas. One where they have fruits they grow to eat themselves where everything is kosher, then there are fruits they sell, where they put all kinds of chemicals to make it look nice, grow faster, last longer,...

Then there are private gardens/vegetable farms where the higher-ups have for themselves.

I attach a link for the same in China, and please don't tell me that you don't have the same here.

http://blog.friendseat.com/chinese-gove … ic-gardens

I figure that if the people who really know about the system, don't trust their own system, why should I?

First of all you have to define vegetarian food. IF you use the U.S. Department of Agriculture definition, I understand from a friend who works in the agriculture support business there are no food products imported that comply.

That is not to say that individual stores are not importing complying food stuffs but given the customs/transportation hassles I would doubt this alternative is used.

Vegetarian restaurants in either VN or Chinese cuisines use their very individual definitions of 'vegetarian'. Vegetarian dishes are sold in temples at certain religious festivals, they are very tasty, cheap and comply to their religious definitions of 'vegetarian'.

About vegetable sources. The Da Lat area supplies vegetables to even north of Ha Noi and they use recognised 'Western' farming techniques, which is to say they don't use human excrement as fertiliser.

All food from Da Lat is subject to inspection as it enters HCMC at the food distribution centres. HCMC food inspectors are know to be tough - they rejected tons of meat which sat dockside, in refrigerated containers, until the importers found another country to ship them to.

Street/roadside/local markets are the problem. If you travel the roads very early in the morning you will see motorcycles laden with farm produce headed for HCMC. The city sets up road blocks in order to intercept these characters but many get through.

You will see, if you live in the countryside, many vegetables being cultivated on riverbanks or in ponds fed from rivers, many of which are heavily polluted with human and industrial wastes.

I have seen cauliflowers, which I like, grown on platforms floating in water, a form of hydroponics.

These 'economically' grown vegetables are those that you find in open markets and used by roadside vendors.

As I use well water at home in DakLak I regularly sample the water and send it to HCMC for analysis. Occasionally I send food stuffs. Some food growing media is not too healthy!!

Durian fruit, another personal favourite, along with jack fruit, etc, can be made "ripe" or even rejuvenated by injecting the fruit with mystery chemicals imported from China. To check for chemical additives carefully examine the stalks, or stems, where they join the fruit.

You are looking for 'injection' holes. Usually there are two or three indentations where the fruit has been injected with this mystery chemical - which is openly sold in Chinatown (Cho Lon).

Buying fruits that are susceptible to 'injection' is a risk not only in local markets but also regular supermarkets. Three weeks ago I was at the LOTTE store in Q10 and examined many of the Durian. Most had been injected.

I spoke to the manager, who seemed familiar with the process, and said they should be removed or I would make a telephone call.

The best supermarket vegetables, IMO, come from Lotte, the Co-op Mart is second best with very uneven quality control. The Co-op Mart in Q7 is plain filthy. Lotte supermarkets also have the best meat - they have proper meat counters whereas even the latest Co-Op Marts have counters on wheels.

I have seen, very early in the morning, meat products being delivered to Co-op Mart in open baskets with no covering protecting the meat cuts from road dirt or flies. I have photographs.

I buy from Co-Op Mart but NEVER meat or fish. The Lotte supermarket in Q7 is, IMO, inferior to the one in Q10 (3/2 Street or is 2/3 Street).

The only protection you have for edible, or at least non-poisonous food, is heat.

There are, now, farms in VN that grow chickens 'Western' style, not those scrawny looking things that look like walking advertisements for starvation, and they are processed in VERY modern facilities. Lotte, KFC, Lotteria all buy their chicken from these plants. These plants export chickens to Norh America so you know they have to be clean.

PORK is a baddy. Blue Ear disease is very common. The VN farmers tend NOT to use anti-biotics, which is why the meat tastes so great, BUT they get disease. Every VN cook knows that PORK NEEDS COOKING - for a looooong time.

ANYTHING involving PORK BONES requires boiling for at least FOUR HOURS to ensure all bone marrow carried diseases are destroyed.

VN BEEF always seems TOUGH as if it has walked to market from the other end of the country. It can't be my cooking techniques as others seem to have the same experience. I buy big containers of meat tenderiser to solve the problem.

VN has recently allowed US BEEF to be imported again. It was SUSPENDED when the MAD COW disease was rampant (nooun intended) in the US a few years back.

VINAMILK products are GOOD and they are selling so well they have built another huge processing plant. Farmers have responded and are breeding more milking cattle rather than importing milk products.

AVOID CHINESE food products, not that there are many now, as they have false certification.

MOTHERS with babies UNDER 6 MONTHS can only buy formula from pharmacies/drug stores by law. Find young child formula anywhere else and it is fake.

Having lived here 20 years, I can tell you things have never been so good.

Bon appetite.

Jaitch
Great stuff.
There are so many types of so-called vegetarian/vegan diets that I have lost tracked of them. For me, it is fresh vegetables cooked, eaten with grain-based products (rice, pasta), beans and other stuff to provide protein.

I don't like the fake-meat dishes they sell at the vegetarian restaurants here. Too much MSG and other additives, plus fats to make them taste good.
In Thai temples, they cook vegetarian foods the way I described above.

Concerning meat delivery, I have also seen (take it back, I have ONLY seen) meat being delivered in open baskets in car or motorbikes to high-end restaurants in Nguyen Hue boulevard, so I assume that it is the standard delivery method everywhere.

I have seen various reports concerning durian being injected at the growers before delivered to the wholesalers. Those wholesalers again sell to the markets and supermarkets (as you mentioned), therefore it is not a lot of places I can trust.

Anyway, thanks for the pointers. I'll try the Lotte at 2/3 Street (US convention: Feb the third commemorating the birthday of the Vietnamese Communist Party) sometime.

Hi anatta ,

You can search New Cho ( market ) in vietnamese page , this mini supermakret may sell organic food .

One famous and delicious organic food in HCM is Loving Hut Resaurant ( in Vietnamese : Nha Hang Chay Hoa Dang ) . It placed on Phan Ton street , near the Dien Bien Phu & Dinh Tien Hoang Cross .

I'm happy if this information useful for you

Votongkhue

I am aware of the Nha Hang Chay Hoa Dang in Dakao.

However, my understanding is that New Chợ is a new convenience store format from the French Groupe Casino. Given their tiny format (100-300 square meters), I doubt that if they'll sell organic food, given it is a niche product. You sure they sell organic food/vegetables? If you are, pls let me know which location.

You can try with organik online at www.organikvn.com or their shop at Thao Dien, District 2

tranquynh
Thanks for the posting.

I did mention about organik.vn earlier in this thread as well as in other threads. I also have used them several times and quite happy, even though their prices are a bit high, but you get what you pay.

For those who may be concerned about the safety of their food in general, and of vegetables in particular, the following is an update of my view and quest for safe food supply.

In general, the situation of food safety has not improved since I wrote the original post. Probably, it has not gotten worse. It is just that people have been made more aware of how really bad it really is.

Case in point:
A few months ago, a report about dangerous chemicals (from China) fed to the pigs to make their meat really lean (no fat). The pigs must be sold within a few days after being fed, otherwise, their legs will break from their own weight because their bones become very fragile!!!
It has caused a wide-spread panic causing pork consumption to nosedive. It has not recovered.

I can go on and on about similar problems in seafood, other meats, fruits and vegetables.
People are desperate and exasperated: they don't know and don't care any more since danger seems to exist in all foods.

Concerning vegetables, the issues are made worse because of another long-held consumer perception/belief: vegetables must be cheap. No one is willing to pay premium for clean vegetables. Countless efforts have been made to commercialize better quality vegetables, without much success.

Official responses to all food scandals: they either shift the burden to the consumers "the public should be aware/selective of their purchase!!!" or blame it on the unruly bureaucracy. A common cited problem is that there are sth like 10 different agencies responsible of food control. Sorry, the equivalent of the US FDA or even Consumer Protection Agency do not exist here.

I lamented about this situation with my good Thai friends over delicious and perfectly safe food in Thailand a few days ago. They mentioned that similar situation did exist in Thailand long time ago. They managed to change that by stricter control, regulation and punishment. Also, the hawker centers in Singapore may be known for their high food safety standard today. However, before 1970 when the government began strict regulation, they were known for unhygienic conditions. The point is the government needs to step up, but so far there has been no political will for it yet.

So, in the (long) meantime, do as the government recommends: be selective about what/where you buy.

Concerning vegetables in central area: I have also posted about VGFood, 176 Hai Bà Trưng. This shop has established for many years thus has a stable and loyal customer base. They specialize in safe vegetables and meats. They get their supply early everyday so come early if you want the best selection.

There are couple of specialized stores just open close-by but I have not tried. Otherwise, there are also similar stores up near the airport.

Let me know if any one want their address by posting your reply here and I post them. 

You can also buy from well-known supermarkets: Giants, Coop, Metro, Annam,.. but be aware also there, since there are also 'unsafe' vegetables in the supermarkets. Look for vegetables with proper packaging with date produced by branded growers.
Even better, look for VietGAP or EuroGAP (food safety standard) or even organic declaration, but those are not normally sold in supermarkets (Annam has good quality but their price is also higher).

Another trend among conscious Vietnamese consumers (just like in the West) is to pull together and create their own supply chain: either grow their own vegetables in an urban land plot or buy from trusted sources/growers (a sort of micro, home-grown co-operative) normally from the Da Lat region. This is not easy for foreigners to do here, but I just want to mention it to the Vietnamese readers because not all Vietnamese know/pay attention to this issue.

OMG, thanks for the infos and contribution. Good thing to learn

We, in TP HCM, are very fortunate because the People's Committee has one of the most proactive Health Departments under whose proview food falls.

Since Giants was a new store, as in bare walls, I and two people I know have taken especial interest in it, particularly in the food section.

Their fresh vegtable section is definitely amongst the best of the large marketeers, it's buyers know their stuff. That said, I did see them selling 'goosed' Durians, a fruit I personally enjoy. The fruit, en route from the fields, is way laid and chemicals injected in to the stalks.

I have routinely sampled the stalks looking for the tell tale marks.

To their credit, they removed the Durians, destoryed them in a bin and since then I have never seen a 'goosed' Durian in  Giants.

Anyone who travels the rpads in the very early hours pf the AM will see teams of CGST and the baggy green Comng An uniforms,

except they are food inspectors. They regularly stop trucks and inspect their roads and paperwork.

Generally speaking the larger supermarkets groups have traceable supply sources. The food quality is generally of a known, repeatable, quality. It is the smaller stores, with tighter budgets, where 'cheating' can occur. There is a 'vegetarian' store in D1 whose buyer can be seen  down at the Binh Chanh wholesale vegetable markets.

Chinese chemicals in pigs

This occurred in Northen VietNam and affected areas as far south as Ha Np1. Fortunately, because of the poor transportation, food aupply lines are short, none of the Walmart flying food lines here in VN.  See: < www.utafoundation.org/utacambod/msc99thes/sovalr.htm >.

So, because our friends in the Health Department and poor transport residents in Southern VietNam were protected.

Fish breeding

VietNam bans chloramphenicol and nitrofurans and Customs are very effective at stopping them. Because of their bulk, materials of this

type would arrive by sea. See: < www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/sep/21/fooddrinks.food >

Vegetables

Vegetables need nutrients and there are two sources in VietNam - sewage in waterways and bagged chemicals. River banks and even

floating pontoons are sources of cheap vegetatbles as found in local cho (markets). Very early risers will see masses of moving

vegetables moving along the street, hiding a motorccyle and rider.

Da Lat is the major source for supermarket vegetables and they use bagged chemicals, no river banks for them.

Lotte vegetables are good, but expensive and shelved at room temperatures. Giants are held in coolers and if the temperatures are not maintained, deteioration sets un more quickly.

Food inspection standards in VietNam

Anettas claim that "Sorry, the equivalent of the US FDA or even Consumer Protection Agency do not exist here" is baseless in TP HCM.

The three containers containing meat declared unfit for human consumption (at least in HCM) remained, under guard and lugged in to the elctrical supply, for over four months. They were removed by sea.

The food inspectors haunt the markets. I have been doing a project in Nhat Tao Market where we start around 02.00-03.00H and I see the food inspectors busy sampling food being readied for sale, bagging and labelling the samples and putting them in an ice box on wheels.

The VN authorities are also questioning the use of Frankenfoods. A lot of food, unknown to consumers, is subjected to radiation - as are a lot of exports to the USA.

Anetta wrote: "The point is the government needs to step up, but so far there has been no political will for it yet." In TP HCM this statement is not applicable.

Thailand

Anetta mention he enjoyed Thai food. Let's hope it didn't inlcude food from street vendors who have added borates to minced pork and meatballs to keep them fresh. In high quantities, Mr. Peerapong says, "people who eat [that] could vomit blood or die." See: < www.thepowerhour.com/news3/unsafe_food_fears_asia.htm >. GMO / Frankenfood is in Thailand. See: < www.twnside.org.sg/title/confused.htm >. The antibiotic nitrofuranzone, a probable carcinogen, was found in two of the samples - one from a farm in India and the other from Thailand. Both samples were 28 and 29 times higher than the amount allowed by the FDA. See: < www.unknowncountry.com/news/dangerous-a … orted-fish >.

Hormones

See: < http://foodsafety.suencs.com/231 >.

So how about imported food, say from the States?

VN has recently rescinded it's ban on imported US beef. Whoopee??

Ignoring the small detail about food miles (distance between origin and consumer), people think the US is a source of food excellence.

Given the proximity to July 4th, etc., I simply give you links to read about US sourced food. Fruit pickers poisoned: < www.motherjones.com/environment/2012/06 … poison-epa >; Pink Slime (meaty): < www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2012/0 … ol-lunch>; Antibiotics & Factory Farms: < www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2011/0 … tory-farms >; Human Superbug: < www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2012/02 … bred-farms >; Just ‘Pink' Slime: < www.propublica.org/special/and-you-thou … pink-slime >; California Mad Cow Case: < www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2012/0 … california >; "Meat Glue": < www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2012/0 … -it-sounds >.

The question is: Who can you trust?

Personally, I prefer to eat locally grown meat and fish, rather meat imported from some distant place with very strange production techniques.

Jaitch

Too bad you (and the majority of readers in this forum) don't read Vietnamese so I can't quote the torrents of articles which are the basis for all of my comments.

It is also obvious that you are not so much informed about the current status, at least in the area of food safety.

The pork incident is IN THE HCMC itself. Ask any well-informed Vietnamese in SGN and they will tell you about this.

You seem to have faith in the supermarkets. I did too, until I read their own admission in the newspapers in connection with another food scandal about their incapacity to do even random safety sampling and rely mostly on the reputation of their suppliers, as I mentioned in my earlier posting in this thread (see posting 2011-11-03 15:40:03)

Concerning your raving about the distinguished food controllers in the city, I can only cite newspapers telling the supposedly common practice of using chemicals (again Chinese) in rotten meat to transform it to appealing meat in the city. Those rotten meats, again per those newspapers, are transported from the North or even imported from abroad.

True enough, the food controllers have stepped up their inspection of pork in the fresh markets after the scandal, but consumer confidence is already lost.

Several cases in the South have been reported that the meats are actually dug from the ground immediately after the authority (food controllers??) got rid of the seized rotten meats by burying them underground. 

Hmm, make me wonder who leak the details of those burials!!!

Well informed Saigonese would tell you that the food controllers also purposely leak out some seizures/scandals for political reasons.

In general, these newspaper reports are so detailed and pictures no one can just make them up.

Concerning GMO in Vietnam, read a recent article.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/en/science … arket.html

To be honest, GMO is the least of my worries right now (not that it is a small concern) given the current status, and I assume it is also for most of the Vietnamese consumers. As you see in the article, Vietnamese consumers don't understand much about GMO food, thus I have not read a lot about them in the Vietnamese newspapers.

As I mentioned, my primary sources are newspapers and widely held consensus from the crowd I know. I don't claim any direct knowledge. However, out of my own experience in other areas, they are often accurate.

Concerning food in Thailand, I never claim that street food is safe, but I do claim that the food in general is much safer there. Case in point: ALL the chemicals mentioned in your own article are sources of some food scandals in Vietnam recently. As opposed to only used by street vendors in Thailand (as mentioned in the article), those chemicals are found in commercial samples sold in all venues (including restaurants, one must assume).

borates (VN: hàn the) is often found in processed food. A survey last year found borax in 15% of the sampled commercial noodles (bu'n) in the North.

Formaldehyde (VN: phoóc- môn) has been found lately for preservation of fruits and other food in HCMC.

Dyes: recent scandals include
- dying the color of chicken skin. Whereas Perdue in the US feeds marigolds to their chickens to get the beloved yellow skin, dyes are sometime used here
- dying the color of a popular Vietnamese sweet cake (cốm làng Vòng) which essentially kills the whole industry (at least for a while) resulting honest producers also suffering financial hardship.

BTW, your source is a WSJ article from 2007 (5 years ago) which confirms what I said about Thailand HAD food problems which the authority has managed to control to at least some success.

I think I'll refrain from commenting about US food, except from pointing out that US beef export to Vietnam is a lousy ONE ton per year!
http://www.applicaconsultinggroup.com/v … e-fears-27

At last, to be fair, the practices I mentioned above are all copied from our ingenious, big brother further north of the border, so they are not local inventions, if that would be of any consolation .

My employer has six females who do nothing except read VN language newspapers and translate the contents for two of our clients. I stated before the English language press hear is the 'good news' press where the VN press tells it more like it is. My favourite is the Cong An - almost like the daily comics in recalling their feats.

Inspected meat in TP HCM is safe and you will find it in the major supermarkets, the high risk areas are the local markets who use uninspected food. Just check their eggs - a felt tip pen scratch is not an inspectors mark.

I have more faith in supermarkets than I do smaller outlets or standalone stores and way more than local markets. Goodfoods is a trusted supplier.

Co-op is the least reliable of the supermarkets; comically their outlet on Nguyen Van Linh is a pig sty, yet it has been feeding PMH for years.

Personally, I have taken pictures, and witnessed delivery, of meat carried in open, uncovered baskets delivered to Co-op markets. I and their security guards know each other well. I am sure the Co-op buyers made good selections but the system broke down in a serious way outside their purview.

I also told you I found injected Durians in Giants, something their out of country buyer didn't understand.

If you want Durians, the place to go is a strip on Nguyen Van Cu.

The large food chains have their buyers in Da Lat and other food production areas. I don't rave, BTW.

The Health Department has regularly seized / impounded meat dockside before the recent incidents.

TP HCM is way ahead of Ha Noi, which, in turn is way ahead of the rest of the country in food inspection - possibly because of the environment.

The food inspectors I see are the ones sampling food, they take the samples using hollow tipped, very large diameter, 'needles' and carefully code and store them.

Likewise at Binh Chanh wholesale markets.

The VN government authorised GMO rice, a friend of mine works for Cargill VN, and now the government have indicated to them potential changes in policy.

The Thai fish food concerns were highlighted in Europe and North America - their 'combo' food products being made from different species of fish, many not mentioned on the labelling.

The local noodle factories had some unpleasant activities two years ago, but they have been cleaned up since. I never buy the domestic quality noodles, only the export quality as they are not about to ship containers of product to have them rejected portside thousands of miles away.

Red Dye No. 4 has been declared a health hazard for many years and is a prominent item in Chinese food, and in some traditional VN foodstuffs.

My Thai food reports were not from the WSJ newspaper, owned by Murdoch, I use Reed Lanier databases.

Your one ton/year is dated information; the ban has only just come off and the VN purchasers have long memories. The US threatened to block VN fish imports unless the VN ban was lifted.

China has some of the worst food practices going; I am even more careful what I eat there than in VN.

The poisoned costume jewellery that put some VN people into hospital; the tainted baby food that caused the VN government to get into the baby food importing business. Like wise with drugs.

Vegetarian food supplies

My friend at Cargill said her company has no FDA-certified organic food stuffs in their inventory - they cost too much extra.

There is a nascent 'vegetarian' food business here; it is incapable of standing alone. One 'vegetarian' food shop on Le Thanh Ton in the east end claims it's buyers go to Da Lat.

The problem is that whilst they go get the better quality products, their supply chain is identical to that of the regular non-vegetarian food.

An the buyer from a 'vegetarian' store on Hai Ba Trung who I have seen in the Binh Chanh wholesale market sure wasn't buying bags of food from regular distributors for his home use.

I use Reed-Lanier, and one other database, to track imports and exports so I know where I can get products from. The freight database is detailed; it is used by all manner of shipping related industries world-wide.

No compliant vegetarian foodstuffs are listed for VN. I did see some air shipments from New Zealand to Goodfoods and they were Halal certified.

'Vegetarian' food in temples and pagodas is not certified 'vegetarian'; they often cook with animal fats. I like dai lo mai , so I make a point of knowing where the best is.

'Vegetarian' food in VN is illusional, there isn't a sustainable market ... yet.

Recycled cooking oil

There was a large recycled cooking oil business here in VietNam until last year, I wrote a piece for a different web site on it. Their customers were generally low end food vendors where every input Dong saved represents a gain in income.

VN recycled it for cooking and the States recycles it for a vehicle fuel.

International standards do matter

In today's 'flat' world, thanks to the WTO, one countries standards are accepted by other countries.

VN bought Airbus and Boeing aircraft; do you think VN has standards stipulating the standards they must meet? VN does have standards for vehicles, though.

Likewise with food products, you better know what other countries, who supply VietNam, have for standards.

Brain tissue, which injured people handling it, is used world-wide in Chinese food. FDA approved, too. You can see it in Cho Lon, looks like small intestines.

"Pink Slime' has been used by all the major food chains, McBarf, and others, have announced they will cease using it. How do you now if McBarf or other American food chains aren't using products imported from the states?

The best dodgy food detector are your eyes and your nose and is why I do the food shopping in my house.

>An the buyer from a 'vegetarian' store on Hai Ba Trung who I have seen in the Binh Chanh wholesale market sure wasn't buying bags of food from regular distributors for his home use.

Jaitch
I am not aware of any other vegetable food store in Hai Ba Trung other than VGFood.
Are you alleging that VGFood is buying from regular (unsafe/unreliable) wholesalers?
If you are, I (and readers from this forum) would like to know. I have no commercial interest in VGFood but do handle it there regularly myself, thus my own recommendation.

VGFood does claim to buy fresh produces (vegetables and meats) from their own sources/supplies or transported directly from sources, as evidenced in the instore signage and claimed from their employees. I know that they do their own retail packaging from bulk in the store, but it is common practice to save transport cost and wastage.

It is a serious allegation and I think it deserves to be specific, rather than vague allusion. I would not be surprised if they do as you allude, given all the stuff I have written (nothing in Vietnam surprises me), but want to have hard evidence given the supposedly good reputation they have.

There were, as of 2011 November, three stores on Hai Ba Trung claiming to supply 'vegetarian' food.

I have yet to see any vegan/vegetarian/Halal food supplier boasting an ISO2001 certification in a country that displays the banners and signs as they do the national flag. Not even AU LAC Pure Vegetarian Trade & Manufacture Co., Ltd, in the business for 18 years, has an ISO Certification. Nhu Lan and other meat and food processors do, but no vegetarian outlets. I wonder why?

The land in Da Lat requires nutrient supplements, as do most agricultural areas world-wide. Some areas use human sewage, even in North America, but the easiest form comes in bags, which is what many Da Lat farmers use.

Small retail operations cannot afford to have buyers stationed in Da Lat so, sensibly, they buy at the local in-town wholesale food markets. They are something to behold.

I doubt there is traceability in the produce, who grew what, where and how. If there is no standard at the sourcenot , there can be no standards nearer the point of consumption.

If a VG Foods buyer, at their favoured source, demand a 100  kilo's of something and the supplier says it is nearly here, how do you know that a runner from the wholesaler is popping around the corner to get a bag or two from a friend?

In 2010 there were no farmers in Da Lat claiming to be 'organic'. Who tests the food to see if it complies? There is at least one outfit in town that can test food, the same place where I send I send my well water for testing, monthly.

So who assures the standards claimed by these retail outlets? Sure they have good looking vegetables in their stores, but organic, I have my doubts.

Halal butchers have their meats flown in from New Zealand, mainly, as do Goodfoods - I see the details on the airfreight reports. Could it be that your organic stores buy from them?

What is 'vegetarian or vegan' food in VN? Whose benchmarks are they using? Certainly not the Chinese, the temples and pagodas, as they use meat products in the preparation of their dishes.

Are GMO products compliant? Perhaps that is why the VN market is so ill defined? What standards does it employ?

I think the only claims you can make is that the products VG Foods sell appear wholesome and fresh but little else. You purchase from prior experience not from a scientific basis.

If Vina milk is prepared to play funny games with their products (adding powdered milk mixed with water to bulk up 'fresh' milk) there is nothing whatsoever to dissuade 'organic' stores from dong the same.

Jaitch

In terms of food safety standard, ISO standards (I assume you meant ISO9001, not ISO2001) don't mean much. A ISO compliant company can still produce food stuffed with dangerous additives, chemicals,… The standards you want is, as I mentioned earlier, VietGAP, EUREPGAP, Global GAP,.. They are standards for food safety, both for vegetables AND meat production.

To be certified as organic food, there are different international standards. Vietnam does not have its own organic standard, as VIETGAP for food safety.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_certification

To claim compliance to those standards, there are different certification agencies. Take VIETGAP, there are at least 17 of them in Vietnam.
http://baovethucvatphuyen.com/DANH_SCH_ … AP-f487.py

There are food producers who aim for organic certifications. For example, rice from Viet Phu Green Farm is certified as organic per EU and US standards.
vienphugreenfarm.com
They can be bought at, among others, VGFood and Organik shops.

As per your allegation about the practice of mixing ‘kosher' and ‘non-kosher' stuff to be sold as the real thing, I can only paraphrase the famous statement from a Vietnamese top official a few years ago blurting out in exasperation when confronted with complaints about widespread corruption: “If you all want only honest civil servants and kick out corrupt ones, where do I find the people to staff all the governmental agencies?”. Similarly, if I only want food meeting 100% standard, where in hell do I find them it Vietnam?!!

Besides, quality costs money, and the Vietnamese consumers are not willing to pay for food quality yet. VietPhu organic purple rice sold at VGFood for nearly 100 000VND/kg (I paid 148 000VND/package of 1.7kg, I believe, though you can buy direct from the manufacturer for less). That is at least 3-5 times the price of ‘normal' white price sold in supermarkets.
People think I am crazy paying this price.

Therefore, the temptation to ‘mix-and-match' is understandably high. It is a matter of degree I guess and where you draw the line is a matter of judgment. You don't want to fire employees for taking a pen home from the office or fib a little with their expense reports but you do want to fire them if they embezzle for 100 000 USD.

There is a lot of great information here, thanks to you two for putting this together. Im from the states where a majority of my diet was raw vegan. Fresh high quality fruits and vegetables. This scares the sh-- out of me. Would a co-op type set up be unreasonable here in VN? If we had enough people willing to pay more for high quality food and a legitimate farm that was growing it.

wrightEd
As mentioned earlier, people have banded together to set up their own co-op or use available land to grow their own vegetables or buy directly from growers or even buy home-grown vegetables from each other.

I believe I saw vegetables grown on the Hoang van Thu park (the huge park you see after 1-2 km from the airport when you drive to the city).

Since you are a foreigner not speaking Vietnamese, it may be difficult for you to deal with them, so I would advice you to buy from the stores I mentioned above and supplement them with foods like nuts you bring from the States.

wrightEd wrote:

This scares the sh-- out of me.

This particular fertilizer is supplied gratis if you buy from local markets where food comes from small holdings and river banks

There are some Foreigners growing various small plants, mainly herbs, on balconies and sharing them around.

The biggest complaint is where to get seeds

Possibly a crawl around the Cho Da Lat would reveal seed sources. They grow several vegetables that start from seeds.

At least the climate between here and Da Lat and BMT passes through temperate so European vegetables should grow.

I see the soy bean prices are rocketing, much of the US farm belt is classified as drought areas.

WrightEd:
I read this in < http://www.helpguide.org/life/organic_f … es_gmo.htm >.

What does “organic” mean?

The term “organic” refers to the way agricultural products are grown and processed. Specific requirements must be met and maintained in order for products to be labeled as "organic".

Organic crops must be grown in safe soil, have no modifications, and must remain separate from conventional products. Farmers are not allowed to use synthetic pesticides, bioengineered genes (GMOs), petroleum-based fertilizers, and sewage sludge-based fertilizers.

A snip from < http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 … lives.html > focused on what I was interested in. Irradiation.

A great deal on VN food is irradiated (one plant is right here in TP HCM), particularly fruits. Rather sorting foods for domestic and international sale often the decision is to just irradiate the lot.

Exported fresh produce is required irradiation by the US through The Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) regulating used as a quarantine treatment.

I don't know where you got your data concerning "a great deal of VN is irradiated", since my understanding is that there are about 5 irradiation plants dedicated to food in Vietnam. Even them are not working on an industrial scale (2 in/around SGN, 1 in Hanoi, 1 in Bình Dương, the one in Da lat is only for general nuclear research). However, more are under construction (the one being in Lâm Đồng not expected ready until 2015 at the earliest)

Hello all,

Growing things organic in Vietnam is not fisible at the moment, i have myself been growing my own herbs and vegetables organic and its not cheap. Iv had to import most things and well you lose about 30% to bugs here in Vietnam.

Read an article in the word magazine about just this and i know there are some stores that claim to sell organic things in Ho Chi Minh and unless they get their water form somewhere else then Dalat and spend a small fortune on importing things that not possible considering the price. I bag of salad would be over 70,000vnd and who would pay that?

Then we have the staffing, transporting and location cost not to mention the production cost. And who would certify it? As you all know its very easy to get all kinds of certificated for an envelope.

But to all those who are fortunate enough to afford to grow things organic yourself i say do it, i do it because i know what kind of chemicals they spray on things here in Vietnam. It has improved a lot but when the farmers themselves don't even eat the things they grow it makes you think. Iv seen the countless of Chinese chemicals that has polluted the soil and groundwater so bad it will take ages to filter away.

I for one want to know that what i eat and what i feed my family is safe, and the extra work and cost of me growing it myself is priceless. The feeling of just walking out to your garden and picking fresh thyme and rosemary for your Sunday roast, or a couple of kaffir lime leafs for your penang is great.

/Thenewguy

Fresh Home Grown Goodies

Andreas Fagerkull < [email protected] > is an enthusiastic gardener in PMH and every so often his crops come in. If you want FRESH Rosemary, Basil and kaffir lime  drop him a line and get on his mailing list.

He posts on PMH Neighbiurs Group (free membership)

Jaitch wrote:

Fresh Home Grown Goodies

Andreas Fagerkull < [email protected] > is an enthusiastic gardener in PMH and every so often his crops come in. If you want FRESH Rosemary, Basil and kaffir lime  drop him a line and get on his mailing list.

He posts on PMH Neighbiurs Group (free membership)

Good job to reveal the real identity of Thenewguy :-).

Anatta wrote:

Jaitch wrote:

Fresh Home Grown Goodies

Andreas Fagerkull < [email protected] > is an enthusiastic gardener in PMH and every so often his crops come in. If you want FRESH Rosemary, Basil and kaffir lime  drop him a line and get on his mailing list.

He posts on PMH Neighbiurs Group (free membership)

Good job to reveal the real identity of Thenewguy :-).

Hehe yea thanks for that, well well i guess i just have to wait for the angry people with swords showing up at my doorstep.

/Thenewguy

Thank you all for the valuable advice given. Is Dalat wine safe to be consumed? Is the ViSSAN brand of meats reliably safe?

Sploke77 wrote:

Is Da Lat wine safe to be consumed?

Do you know the meaning of "Plonk"?

Sploke77 wrote:

Is the ViSSAN brand of meats reliably safe?

The most reliable brand of meat products are the NHU LAN line.

It comes in VN style (thick layer of fat around the outside of the meat) and Western style.

It can be found in most supermarkets. It can be purchased at Nhu Lan just the uptown side of Vo Thi Sau on Hai Ba Trung (about 150 metres)

It is sold in packs, or sliced, in their delicatessen located at the Nhu Lan Restaurant, 50 Ham Nghi - opposite the Financial Tower - hard to miss!

The meat is manufactured to international standards (it's exported) using modern American meat processing equipment.

Hello Anatta. I find getting safe food here in VN a REAL concern. The very core of each and every day of my mind/body/spirit is to try to ensure optimal health and this of course consists of nutrition, exercise, and keeping stresses at a maximum distance from me.

When I say "nutrition", I am meaning the food source has ALL the minerals and vitamins that is should have and that we NEED to keep our bodies in homeostasis. Minerals are overlooked by so many but minerals bond with the DNA in our chromosomes. DNA of course regulates EVERYTHING our bodies do. If minerals are lacking or not present, then our bodies fail. And immunity immunity immunity....it can not be overlooked. It is our defense system and if working at its optimal level, it can do amazing things.

The chemicals in foods ( the ones that are man made ) can be extremely destructive and are now known to be the root causes of many know diseases. Of course the large corporations will do everything they can to suppress the true facts about how dangerous ( and fatal ) their food 'stuff' can be. This is not just isolated to Viet Nam or China.

Please do the research of the United State's Food & Drug Administration (FDA) and understand that it is an agency that is bed with the large and powerful pharmaceutical companies (aka Big Pharma) and food producers. These in turn are in bed with big government in the United States.

Many countries around the World refuse America's GMO's (genetically modified foods) and many many Americans are waking up to the fact that Big Pharma and Big Agri are NOT their friends. As a result, these large corporation are trying to export their dangerous products to other countries and peoples in order to keep sales / profits up.

Unfortunately, I have noticed that persons who are not aware of how the United States operates ( FDA, Big Agri, Big Pharma, etc ) are victims to a corrupt, diabolic system. Jst because something is from the United States, or is FDA Approved, or Certified Organic, etc..does not meant that it is safe to eat, to drink, to apply on to your skin, or to use as medicine.

You can go to a search engine and type "corrupt FDA) to see how this agency operates. Also you can go to youtube and type "Dr Russell Blaylock" or another is "Dr Tent". Blaylock knows about nutrition and the dangers of chemicals, along with knowledge of minerals and vitamins. Dr Tent has some very good videos also. I like his demonstrations on minerals and the dangers of so called 'medicines' that go into our bodies.

Glutathione, selenium, lysine, alpha lipoic acid, N-acetyl L-Cystine, L-Carnitine are all very good at helping the body to get rid of these toxins from our bodies. Also a root from Indonesia called temulawak is very good. Indonesians make a tea called jamu; good stuff and they've used it for hundreds of years. Tumeric also is beneficial.

Yes, beware of Uncle Sugar. The canned and packaged stuff from good old USA is full of sugar and salt and their is no way they are going to change this until people stop eating this garbage. Also be careful of what you drink.

I change my diet a few years back and lost 35 pounds in 6 weeks. I now eat good, all I want and I feel great.

There is a rumor that COOP Mart gets its veggies from organic producers in Dalat. Does anyone know if this is true?

Best

Yes sodium & sugars are extremely high in American processed foods. Aluminum cans don't help either.  Today's average salt in America no longer has iodine and iodine is an essential mineral the human body needs. The average sugar is bleached (white) and this bleaching process is also not good; just as bleached (white) wheat flour is not good.

In many things aspartame is used as a sweetener. Its also put in and on many things (for some reason) where sweetening is not needed. Aspartame is classified as an excitotoxin and these are deadly dangerous. Fluoride in the water and used in toothpastes and dentist's offices is another excitotoxin. Read the container of the toothpaste and if it has fluoride in it and its swallowed, the container says to call the Poison Control Center immediately..and the government puts it in the drinking water. Go figure.

Fluoride is a byproduct of manufacturing aluminum and was used decades ago in the Soviet prisons (gulags) because it caused the prisoners to be more docile. The reason being that it cut off the neurons of the brain from connecting. It basically 'dumbs down' the users.

Many many deadly substances in American foods and in other parts of the World. 

Many people are basically starving their bodies from essential minerals either because the food is too highly processed, or the soil no longer has the minerals in it. The plant roots absorb minerals from the soil and the fruits & vegetables are supposed to hold these minerals. If the minerals are not in the soil to begin with, well...nobody gets their minerals in the fruits & vegetables they eat. Pretty basic stuff. People can eat all the 'healthy' foods they want and their bodies can still be starving for minerals. Couple that with all the toxins going in the body and the immune system is working overtime..amongst other issues.

lostvietdreamer wrote:

Yes, beware of Uncle Sugar. The canned and packaged stuff from good old USA is full of sugar and salt and their is no way they are going to change this until people stop eating this garbage. Also be careful of what you drink.

I change my diet a few years back and lost 35 pounds in 6 weeks. I now eat good, all I want and I feel great.

There is a rumor that COOP Mart gets its veggies from organic producers in Dalat. Does anyone know if this is true?

Best

I have a VN friend who swears by the COOP Mart veges, and she considers herself as somewhat of an expert when it comes to fruit and veg, ( family had a fruit and veg stall when she was young ). they should be from Dalat, because they charge more than the other Supermarket up here.

Hello all,

I've been living HCMC for 6 months, struggling to put a safe food on a table as much as I can.
I checked almost every organic food shop, but they seemed to be in a constant battle against the unstable supplies, both in terms of the qualities and quantities. for that, I respect and feel grateful for their effort, but...

Even at Annam Gourmet Market, I found a injection hole at the bottom of a fresh coconut.
You cannot possibly tell this tiny hole until you open it and carefully check inside, now talk about a malicious business!
My VN friend advised me to avoid any husked 'white' coconut, go to the local market and buy some unhusked 'green' one.
Sometimes it's a bit difficult to keep a balance between being a careful consumer and not to be too paranoid about the food safety, is it not?

Yes

Safe food is not only your own concern but most of Vietnamese. We try to chose the safest food for our family but the fact that sometimes we try in vain. There's a lot of problems in the market management of the Government. All we should do now is avoiding poisonous food to the maximum with any information we have.

FEW foods are Certified Genuine vegetarian. I have an office in Quan 7, minutes from the Binh Chanh wholesale food terminal and occasionally I go there in the morning to check out who is buying larger quantities.

It's amazing how many 'vegetarian' stores buy at the regular market.

TP HCM officials are good at spotting ringers - but they can't be everywhere every day. What I do is to locate a decent VN owned market outlet and develop a relationship with them. They often treat you like 'family' and really look after you.

In Quan 7 I shop at CHO TAN MY (near the Nguyen Thi Thap @ Nguyen Van Linh intersection). My reliable store is located SOM8.

This small area around the market has some 24/7 stores - bread/bakery; flowers; fruit; etc.

For fish I avoid FRESH WATER FISH as you might notice, the local rivers aren't too savoury as a food source. I buy SEA FISH (not farm) and have them DRESSED by the fishmonger. The fish are jumping fresh and towards the end of the day prices drop as they want to sell their products off rather than house them over night.

GIANTS has miserable meat and fish - their meats look as if they park a cow on the loading dock and hack it to bits.

LOTTE MART meat is better - but their stores have terrible layouts, these days.

INJECTED FRUIT usually have TWO or THREE 2 mm holes in the end of the stalks when they have been injected..